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	<title>Comments on: An Early Look At Halloween</title>
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	<link>http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/archives/159</link>
	<description>Living close enough to the edge to matter...</description>
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		<title>By: Chris L.</title>
		<link>http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/archives/159/comment-page-1#comment-6637</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris L.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 13:44:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/?p=159#comment-6637</guid>
		<description>Bob,

I think that there are a number of valid responses to sharing Christ in the post-modern world.  My primary point was that we need to allow the charity among brothers on exactly what that response should be.  &quot;How close to the edge&quot; they can be without becoming &#039;of the world&#039; is a judgment call that families and church communities should be allowed.  

Whether that response is avoidance of or familiarity with the culture is not a one-size-fits-all dictate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob,</p>
<p>I think that there are a number of valid responses to sharing Christ in the post-modern world.  My primary point was that we need to allow the charity among brothers on exactly what that response should be.  &#8220;How close to the edge&#8221; they can be without becoming &#8216;of the world&#8217; is a judgment call that families and church communities should be allowed.  </p>
<p>Whether that response is avoidance of or familiarity with the culture is not a one-size-fits-all dictate.</p>
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		<title>By: Tammy</title>
		<link>http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/archives/159/comment-page-1#comment-6579</link>
		<dc:creator>Tammy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 23:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/?p=159#comment-6579</guid>
		<description>Chris, Chris, Chris, I fear you are correct but you must increase your list.  It appears that six of our key characters die.  Hagrid, Lupin, Mad Eye, Hermione, Tonks, Percy - I cannot say Molly - I believe Harry will need a family to live.  Perhaps Harry will die in the Hollow where his parents died bringing it all full circle.  We will know soon.  PLease send me an email so that we can email Saturday.  If you Skype, Skype me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, Chris, Chris, I fear you are correct but you must increase your list.  It appears that six of our key characters die.  Hagrid, Lupin, Mad Eye, Hermione, Tonks, Percy &#8211; I cannot say Molly &#8211; I believe Harry will need a family to live.  Perhaps Harry will die in the Hollow where his parents died bringing it all full circle.  We will know soon.  PLease send me an email so that we can email Saturday.  If you Skype, Skype me.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/archives/159/comment-page-1#comment-6569</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/?p=159#comment-6569</guid>
		<description>Great! I am interested in how to share Christ by finding a redemptive analogy in Halloween. 
While we&#039;re there, I am also ignorant of how to tell a four year old what the five year old meant when he said, &quot;Let&#039;s play house, but let&#039;s not get married, let&#039;s just have sex.&quot; 
One would be hard pressed to convince me that sheltering my kids was wrong. 

I have three adult children who  were raised in the heartland of a cult. I know how they turned out. We are working on our surprise nine year old now.

I am here on the blog for a simple reason, Chris does a great job of teaching the historical context of the Bible. He took an interest in remez. I have experience in drash and sod.  

I&#039;m sorry if I stepped on your toes. But frankly, I don&#039;t know enough about &quot;living on the edge&quot; your style to comment on it. So I will bow out of the cultural discussions and stick to the theology. 

I have never criticized ministry style, as long as it wasn&#039;t void of content.

So far, the discussion on Halloween and Harry Potter is still void of Christological content. So if the big point is that we have to be around people to witness to them. I agree. 

If the point is that we have to read Harry Potter and celebrate Halloween in order to share Christ in the post-modern world, then I&#039;ll toss it in the rubbish bin with those who say there was no hope for those who were psychologically troubled until Freud.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great! I am interested in how to share Christ by finding a redemptive analogy in Halloween.<br />
While we&#8217;re there, I am also ignorant of how to tell a four year old what the five year old meant when he said, &#8220;Let&#8217;s play house, but let&#8217;s not get married, let&#8217;s just have sex.&#8221;<br />
One would be hard pressed to convince me that sheltering my kids was wrong. </p>
<p>I have three adult children who  were raised in the heartland of a cult. I know how they turned out. We are working on our surprise nine year old now.</p>
<p>I am here on the blog for a simple reason, Chris does a great job of teaching the historical context of the Bible. He took an interest in remez. I have experience in drash and sod.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry if I stepped on your toes. But frankly, I don&#8217;t know enough about &#8220;living on the edge&#8221; your style to comment on it. So I will bow out of the cultural discussions and stick to the theology. </p>
<p>I have never criticized ministry style, as long as it wasn&#8217;t void of content.</p>
<p>So far, the discussion on Halloween and Harry Potter is still void of Christological content. So if the big point is that we have to be around people to witness to them. I agree. </p>
<p>If the point is that we have to read Harry Potter and celebrate Halloween in order to share Christ in the post-modern world, then I&#8217;ll toss it in the rubbish bin with those who say there was no hope for those who were psychologically troubled until Freud.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/archives/159/comment-page-1#comment-6537</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/?p=159#comment-6537</guid>
		<description>I often find myself annoyed at Christians who use their cultural cluelessness as a badge of honor. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s the amazing achievement they think it is. Perhaps the intent is good, a way of showing an alternative, but it often comes off as smug: &quot;My kids aren&#039;t even aware of these worldly things. They play hymns on the piano and read Spurgeon.&quot; That&#039;s an extreme, of course, but I think you get my point. No one is as pure as the driven snow, and listing the exterior ways that they have remained untainted does nothing to address the interior, sometimes more vile and tricky sins, that lurk below. Sins like pride, one of the absolute worst to overcome.

Not being able to talk about Harry Potter is fine, I suppose. Not being able to talk about anything of the world, and wanting to talk about Tamar sounds fine. But I wonder how that will work later in life? How will these kids be around people who are not brought up in the Bible (a growing problem) and therefore don&#039;t have any reference for anything they have to say? That is the importance of being able to work with story and art and culture, to make the analogies and the references and what is needed to have discussion. I think of stories I&#039;ve read of missionaries who had such impossiblities in explaining Christ to cultures where deceit was valued. Christ made no sense. So they found a story in the culture that they could use to relate the message of Christ. We have to learn to speak &quot;other languages&quot; to speak to others that don&#039;t understand our language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I often find myself annoyed at Christians who use their cultural cluelessness as a badge of honor. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s the amazing achievement they think it is. Perhaps the intent is good, a way of showing an alternative, but it often comes off as smug: &#8220;My kids aren&#8217;t even aware of these worldly things. They play hymns on the piano and read Spurgeon.&#8221; That&#8217;s an extreme, of course, but I think you get my point. No one is as pure as the driven snow, and listing the exterior ways that they have remained untainted does nothing to address the interior, sometimes more vile and tricky sins, that lurk below. Sins like pride, one of the absolute worst to overcome.</p>
<p>Not being able to talk about Harry Potter is fine, I suppose. Not being able to talk about anything of the world, and wanting to talk about Tamar sounds fine. But I wonder how that will work later in life? How will these kids be around people who are not brought up in the Bible (a growing problem) and therefore don&#8217;t have any reference for anything they have to say? That is the importance of being able to work with story and art and culture, to make the analogies and the references and what is needed to have discussion. I think of stories I&#8217;ve read of missionaries who had such impossiblities in explaining Christ to cultures where deceit was valued. Christ made no sense. So they found a story in the culture that they could use to relate the message of Christ. We have to learn to speak &#8220;other languages&#8221; to speak to others that don&#8217;t understand our language.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/archives/159/comment-page-1#comment-6525</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2007 04:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/?p=159#comment-6525</guid>
		<description>Last time I checked online, a walk around our block passes the homes of 14 convicted sex offenders. Although I talk with anyone who is out when I walk around the block, being the evangelist that I am, I have generally been more protective of my children. Rather than deprive them of something, we simply did something they perceived as better as a family. 

My point was that we didn&#039;t even have to make a family decision about Harry Potter. It simply isn&#039;t an issue and never came up for discussion.

Yet we had a tramp live with us for three weeks while he recovered from pneumonia. And the first two years in ministry, my wife and I received half a dozen death threats every week.  We considered the harassment as nothing compared to those who are really being persecuted. 

If celebrating Halloween is living on the edge and allows you to share Christ with your neighbors, I&#039;m all for it. But not celebrating Halloween doesn&#039;t necessarily mean that folks aren&#039;t engaged with those who need to hear. We just started working in a new area six weeks ago and God has allowed us to watch Him save three people, followed by two baptisms so far, out of the LDS church. We haven&#039;t even had the opportunity to share Halloween with them yet, or not ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last time I checked online, a walk around our block passes the homes of 14 convicted sex offenders. Although I talk with anyone who is out when I walk around the block, being the evangelist that I am, I have generally been more protective of my children. Rather than deprive them of something, we simply did something they perceived as better as a family. </p>
<p>My point was that we didn&#8217;t even have to make a family decision about Harry Potter. It simply isn&#8217;t an issue and never came up for discussion.</p>
<p>Yet we had a tramp live with us for three weeks while he recovered from pneumonia. And the first two years in ministry, my wife and I received half a dozen death threats every week.  We considered the harassment as nothing compared to those who are really being persecuted. </p>
<p>If celebrating Halloween is living on the edge and allows you to share Christ with your neighbors, I&#8217;m all for it. But not celebrating Halloween doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean that folks aren&#8217;t engaged with those who need to hear. We just started working in a new area six weeks ago and God has allowed us to watch Him save three people, followed by two baptisms so far, out of the LDS church. We haven&#8217;t even had the opportunity to share Halloween with them yet, or not <img src='http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Chris L.</title>
		<link>http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/archives/159/comment-page-1#comment-6506</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris L.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/?p=159#comment-6506</guid>
		<description>Bob,

While fully I agree with the sentiment that we have an infinitely &#039;bigger deal&#039; than Harry Potter, I also believe that to read or not to read is a family decision.  There is a line to walk between being &lt;strong&gt;in&lt;/strong&gt; a culture and being &lt;strong&gt;of&lt;/strong&gt; that culture.  Some choose to avoid the culture altogether, replacing it with something else - which is fine.  Others choose to get closer to the line because that is where you engage the people who most need to hear and see the gospel lived out (which is why this blog is called &#039;Fishing the Abyss&#039; - from our &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/?page_id=2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;about page&lt;/a&gt;).

As for Halloween, I don&#039;t consider the neigbors in my immediate neighborhood to be &#039;strangers&#039; in the sense of &#039;don&#039;t accept candy from strangers&#039;.  Rather, I consider them to be brothers and sisters (in a few cases) or people who need to see and hear (which, I believe is most effectively lived out in relationships...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob,</p>
<p>While fully I agree with the sentiment that we have an infinitely &#8216;bigger deal&#8217; than Harry Potter, I also believe that to read or not to read is a family decision.  There is a line to walk between being <strong>in</strong> a culture and being <strong>of</strong> that culture.  Some choose to avoid the culture altogether, replacing it with something else &#8211; which is fine.  Others choose to get closer to the line because that is where you engage the people who most need to hear and see the gospel lived out (which is why this blog is called &#8216;Fishing the Abyss&#8217; &#8211; from our <a href="http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/?page_id=2" rel="nofollow">about page</a>).</p>
<p>As for Halloween, I don&#8217;t consider the neigbors in my immediate neighborhood to be &#8217;strangers&#8217; in the sense of &#8216;don&#8217;t accept candy from strangers&#8217;.  Rather, I consider them to be brothers and sisters (in a few cases) or people who need to see and hear (which, I believe is most effectively lived out in relationships&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/archives/159/comment-page-1#comment-6501</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 07:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/?p=159#comment-6501</guid>
		<description>I went for consistency.  All year long I tell you not to take candy from strangers, so does it make any sense that I would send you out after dark to solicit candy from strangers? Do you want to go bowling or miniature golf?

We just made a family tradition of it. They never missed it. 

Earlier this evening my youngest (9 yrs) went with me to meet some new people in town. She kept pulling my arm. When I finally gave her attention, she wanted to tell these people about Tamar, and why kings wear purple. She doesn&#039;t even know Harry Potter is supposed to be a big deal because we have found a bigger deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went for consistency.  All year long I tell you not to take candy from strangers, so does it make any sense that I would send you out after dark to solicit candy from strangers? Do you want to go bowling or miniature golf?</p>
<p>We just made a family tradition of it. They never missed it. </p>
<p>Earlier this evening my youngest (9 yrs) went with me to meet some new people in town. She kept pulling my arm. When I finally gave her attention, she wanted to tell these people about Tamar, and why kings wear purple. She doesn&#8217;t even know Harry Potter is supposed to be a big deal because we have found a bigger deal.</p>
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		<title>By: CRN.Info and Analysis &#187; An Early Look At Halloween</title>
		<link>http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/archives/159/comment-page-1#comment-6487</link>
		<dc:creator>CRN.Info and Analysis &#187; An Early Look At Halloween</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/?p=159#comment-6487</guid>
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