“Eternal” is definitely supported by scripture.

“Conscious torment”, while I agree with that interpretation, can legitimately be debated, as the ’second death’ in the lake of fire does not necessarily indicate “conscious torment” – some argue that it could be permanent erasure of the soul, which would be another vaild interpretation from the Revelation passage.

Before you point to the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, please note that it occurs in ‘Hades’ – which is most likely translated from Sheol (not gahenna), or death. In either case, both Sheol and Gahenna are cast into the lake of fire which is the second death.

The ‘Kingdom of God’ (also euphamiszed as the ‘Kingdom of Heaven’) in the Hebrew mind begins on earth (in imperfection) and continues on past death, then in perfection. Jesus’ teaching requires action NOW and has consequences NOW, while the ultimate consequence is always imminent. When we focus ONLY on the eternal, we miss the point.

On a separate topic, are you familiar with St. Gabriel’s camp on the Standing Rock res just south of Mandan? I’ve been involved with some music/art camps there the past several summers.

Grace & peace,

Chris

Yet this is PRECISELY what Jesus was talking about in the very first Scripture that is mentioned. He is accusing the religious leaders of that day of keeping people from Heaven. Not keeping them from experiencing the Kingdom of God on Earth.

Much of the rest is putting words in people’s mouths and then discrediting them for inane beliefs when he or anyone else would be hard pressed to find even a handful of Christians who would ever say such things.

Nicholas
http://theblackhorseinn.blogspot.com

Maybe Jesus doesn’t care about those things. Maybe He does.

I would agree with you on the ‘average’ Christian.

But of course, I would also suggest that the ‘average’ Christian in America does little to feed the hungry, provide medical care for the sick, care for the homeless. For most ‘average’ Christians, outreach and service – if they are addressed at all – are exercises of the pocketbook and not their time.

However, I know a good number of not-so-average Christians who engage in personal devotional activities, but who also are passionately involved in living a life that impacts the world they live in.

A friend of mine worked on Indian reservations until the time of his death, and he taught music to the children there. His Christ-centered philosophy was “I want to teach you something beautiful in your world that is often not beautiful. While I teach you how to play the guitar, I am going to tell you about why it is I have hope. Whether or not you choose to accept the message I’m giving you, I am still going to teach you how to play the guitar.”

I know MANY not-so-average Christians, and they are the ones I see BEING salt and light to the world, not just talking about it.

I, myself, used to be just an ‘average’ Christian, but having been faced with what the Lord desires of me, I have been trying to be that. That desire did not come from the selfish fear of hell – it came from accepting that I can’t earn eternal life, but that I have to just accept it freely. That desire came from the appreciation for Jesus’ sacrifice – not out of fear – an appreciation that has shown me that he has given me certain gifts and a mission field on which they can be used. Fear may have been an initial motivation, but it just left me empty. It is by our love that we will show who Christ is, not our fear.

Without revival we will continue to compare ourselves with ourselves.

In response, Jim posted a section of verses from a Bible dictionary. I responded specifically to most of them in this comment. My main thrust was that Jesus rarely confronted anyone with hell unless they had already rejected him. On the contrary, Jesus usually spoke of hell with his disciples in private or semi-private circumstances.